Sound Off: Walmart, TIF Stories Draw Comments in Shrewsbury
See what your neighbors have been talking about in this round-up of comments from Patch's latest coverage of the TIF commission vote.
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Days after the St. Louis County TIF Commision voted against $15 million in tax breaks for a new Walmart in Kenrick Plaza, Patch readers are still talking in the comments about Walmart, taxes, and the identity of Shrewsbury.
We've gathered a few of the most salient comments so you can see for yourself. Read what your neighbors have to say and join the conversation by adding your own comments below!
From Kurt Odenwald, on Should Walmart Come to Shrewsbury?:
I do not like TIFs, but the alternative is frightening. Without a TIF, there is no redevelopment given the current state of the law in Missouri. Cities like Shrewsbury could say, we do not like these rules, take our ball and go home, and not play in the game. That may make us feel good for a while. But that good feeling soon will give way to financial constraints facing cities lying with in the inner suburban corridor.
From Larry Stone, president of the Affton Community Improvement Association, on No TIF for Walmart: Resident Tired of Subsidizing Corporate Giants:
If the Affton School District has to take a hit from the state during any of the many years they willl be affected by the TIF, the Distict will have no choice but to come back to we the property taxpayers of Affton! Eilleen Dorsey has done an outstanding job of articulating many valid points about why a mega-bucks company like Wal Mart should build this store using public funding. There are other Wal Marts in St. Louis that were build without such taxpayer aid! Wake up Affton before it's to late!
From Joseph G. Frank, on County Commission Votes Against TIF for Shrewsbury Walmart:
This is a complex, emotionally charged issue. Many people do not like Wal-Mart, whether based on labor practices real or perceived, or based on impacts to local small businesses. One issue that concerns me is stormwater runoff -- granted, Kenrick Plaza is pretty much already paved over property, but a large, single user might generate a bit more into Mackenzie Creek and River des Peres. As far as services -- I believe that in the future, inner-ring St. Louis County municipalities will need to team up and selectively combine services in order to survive.
From Keith, on County Commission Votes Against TIF for Shrewsbury Walmart:
It's a shame that the naysayers feel that Shrewsbury is run by a bunch of "clowns". I feel that they're playing their cards right and that they haven't hastily acted upon this project. Lots of planning, patience, and thinking have gone into this. I have to laugh when I see all of these negative comments because I'd certainly like to see all the bright ideas that these people have for Kenrick Plaza's property if they don't want a Walmart there. Target? They never submitted a plan. Neither did Kohl's, K-Mart or any other major retailer! Walmart is the ONLY major player that wants to develop the property. Get over it, people! And residential development? It's not zoned for that! Plus, residential properties wouldn't bring in nearly the amount of revenue that retail will.
From Jody Hoffman, on County Commission Votes Against TIF for Shrewsbury Walmart:
Growing up in Shrewsbury, we left the doors unlocked. Things have changed here. I believe Wal-Mart is the LAST thing Shrewsbury needs. People will settle... go with the flow... do whatever is convenient. One day, people will wake up and see no one has any values anymore. I won't step foot in a Wal-Mart, as my hair will catch fire. I can't stand their Anti-American ways. I hope Shrewsbury can hold on to their values throughout this process and remember who we are, where we come from, and what we stand for. Besides, if I REALLY wanted to go to Wal-Mart, I can drive 3 miles in one direction, and 5 in another.
Leave your own thoughts in our comments!
Chris P
10:52 am on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
Let's pay attention to the issue that got us here in the first place: Previous administrations have ignored and neglected to enforce city codes on the owner of the property. During this time, the owner and property manager have allowed it to turn into a PUBLIC HEALTH MENACE -- and this is according to the TIF study -- as defined by the city codes.
The city codes say that in the case of a public health danger, the city SHALL (not "may" but "shall") compel the owner to demolish the property. In addition, every day that the owner does not comply, s/he shall be guilty of a misdemeanor offense as well as a $500 fine.
The questions that HAVE to be addressed are:
* Who in the past was responsible for the negligence in code enforcement, by name and position?
* Why is the city partly responsible for the demolition and cleanup of the dangerous site via taxpayer-backed TIF bonds? (not just redevelopment but the remediation of the public health hazard?)
* What mechanisms are in place to prevent a future development from rotting like Kenrick did?
* Through TIF, tax revenue from this development will be diverted to pay off the bonds for 23 years. In 23 years, in what ways can we expect the "new" Kenrick Plaza to be in better shape than the "first" Kenrick Plaza after 23 years?
Kurt Odenwald
2:34 pm on Wednesday, January 23, 2013
I doubt that residents of Affton prefer the run down and nearly abandoned Grasso Plaza of 10 years ago to the Grasso Plaza of today. The improvements that brought The St. Louis Bread Company, Save-a-Lot and other new tenants to Grasso Plaza was the result of a TIF. The result was a successful redeveloped plaza (although a small one) that generates increased tax revenues that will benefit the community and school district for years to some. The redevelopment of Kenrick Plaza is no different---just on a larger scale with larger financial rewards for all.
Francis Soyer
9:24 am on Thursday, January 24, 2013
Kurt I couldn't disagree more with you. Watch what happens once a Walmart is added, you'll see a dozen run down abandon buildings as a direct result. Is that what you want? a dozen eye sores or one?
dave garren
12:57 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
Don't pay yourself on the back too hard, Kurt. The jury is still out on whether or not Grasso Plaza was a "success." It was a success for the contractors who got the work, but NOT for the tax-payers. I would have a hard time believing the property is providing THAT much more tax revenue than it did before. Still open spaces in Grasso Plaza. Oh, and have you see what is happening across the street since Grasso Plaza was renovated with TIF money? How much tax-money was lost due to those businesses closing?
Kurt Odenwald
11:43 pm on Wednesday, January 30, 2013
I did not realize Grasso Plaza had any business that competed with hardware store that closed--oh that's right--it doesn't! Talk to the folks at Hannecke Hardware and you will know their business closure had nothing to do wtih competition from Grasso. Lets see---vacant space where Save-a-Lot is and vacant space where Bread Co is. If more tax revenue is not being generated, then someone's hand is in the till.
Chris P
6:18 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013
Let's visualize it this way.
When the bonds are issued with the city of Shrewsbury as guarantor, and you symbolically allocated to debt across all the households in the city, each will represent FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS in debt, on average. Every apartment, every condo, every home represents $5000 in debt, to be paid to a developer who will put in some stores where we are allowed to shop and pay taxes.
We are told that over the course of twenty-three years, that the taxes that we pay to the stores will pay off our share of the debt.
We are subsidizing a project with fifteen million dollars, backed by the taxing power of Shrewsbury, so that we can pay ourselves back the debt that we incurred.
Meanwhile, a property owner who allowed the very property to deteriorate - in violation of city code - gets $15 million in taxpayer money infused into the property.
Is it worth $5000 to your household, in today's dollars, to have a Wal-Mart nearby?
Jody Hoffman
8:22 am on Wednesday, January 30, 2013
I'm absolutely infuriated by the blatent, clear and calculated dishonoring of the St. Louis County TIF Commission's vote against this Walmart TIF by our local government. I will do what I can to vote them out.
Chris P
5:10 am on Thursday, January 31, 2013
"Nobody likes it, but it's just the way it is." What a milquetoaste. Glad that attitude isn't representing us anymore.
D Cook
3:31 pm on Thursday, February 28, 2013
Walmart has a habit of pulling up stakes and leaving empty buildings behind. Check out what they did everywhere they went. They county hop, from one area to another as their TIF runs out. They will do the same to Shrewsbury. They will pack up in a few years leaving a large empty building no one wants.