Menards Considering Affton

The Affton Chamber of Commerce contacted a Menards representative recently.

The Menards St. Peters store
The Menards St. Peters store

Affton Chamber of Commerce Executive Director Joan Edleson said Monday that Menards is considering an Affton location.

The big-box hardware store has opened in St. Peters and O’Fallon, and plans to build in Richmond Heights.

Edleson said she talked with Scott Nuttelman, of Menards, about building in Affton. She said she thinks the store usually builds a new building rather than leasing.

She said the average Affton household income now is comparatively low ($50,000 she quoted), but should rise after subdivisions now under construction are completed, which would make the area more attractive. She said she also stressed that Gravois would bring St. Louis city residents. 

Edleson said she sent Nuttleman a follow-up letter, and St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley will also send a letter.

Sabrina October 01, 2013 at 07:05 AM
Good move Joan! Hope this comes thru for Affton.
Francis Soyer October 01, 2013 at 09:07 AM
Not a bad idea, but at what location? These stores typically run over 200,000 sqft. Grasso Plaza can't handle it, nothing else at the intersection of 21 & Gravois can handle it. Maybe they can convince Roth Furniture store to relocate (not that they would) but that is one of the few locations that could handle a store this size. If not you are tearing down homes to find a place, unless I'm missing an obvious location?
Keith October 01, 2013 at 09:18 AM
As much as I'd like to see a Menard's at the Rothman Furniture location in Shrewsbury, unfortunately that lot is even too small for one. I've been to one of these stores and, between the store itself, the lumber yard and parking lot, Rothman's is too small of an area to place one of these. We can dream, though!
Paul Revere October 01, 2013 at 01:39 PM
She said "she thinks the store usually builds a new building rather than leasing". So, what does this suggest? Has Menard's even looked at Affton before deciding on Richmond heights? She said the "average Affton household income now is comparatively low ($50,000 she quoted)", but should rise. Why is the $50,000 income level a concern? Does Menard's have an income level condition before building in any area? Now, any income rising is wishful thinking as local Real estate tax rates continue toward $10 per hundred. I wonder what Richmond heights gave in tax breaks to lure Menard's. What are Richmond heights Tax rates? These are easy questions that would give you a clear case of Hope. I suspect Affton was considered before Richmond heights and Struck off any possibility. Tax rates , folks is what makes anyone move to an area. Years ago most county areas had no schools and people set shop in school areas. NO MORE! There is no more competition for school locations. And how many $200-$250,000 homes could a $50,000 household income buy? That's what you need to lower rates. Affton population is 27,000 and many are over 45 years old. I would think a younger "home improvement" minded population is Menard's target area. Richmond heights is close enough to handle any Menard's product needed by Affton residents. Just my opinions.
mmm4mom October 01, 2013 at 02:12 PM
Thought they were building one in Manchester on Manchester Road also. Haven't been out that way lately but thought they had started on it. Why was it not mentioned in the article? We have been to the one in St. Peters. It is huge but has alot. I would just like one closer please to Kirkwood.
Johann Aff October 01, 2013 at 02:49 PM
They are already building a Menard's between Hanley and Big Bend. Since everyone from Affton passes right by there at least every once in a while to get to our county seat, Clayton, and other cultural attractions in that area, Menard's would be *foolish* to build in Affton. Afftonians can simply use the Maplewood Menard's, just like we use the Maplewood Home Depot, Sam's, Wal-Mart, Lowes, Red Lobster, Applebee's, etc. Notice how the big box stores ask your zip code when you check out? The retail giants know they have 63123 "on lock" without ever having to build anything *in* 63123.
Francis Soyer October 02, 2013 at 08:52 AM
It makes no sense for them to build on Hanley, they will be right in the middle (within a quarter mile) of Home Depot AND Lowes. Typical big box retail, that location will bring no new business to that area, only share customers, or more importantly to them, steal customers from their competition. That area does NOT have 63123 "on lock". Right now people choose if they like Home Depot or Lowes, then they choose between Sunset Hills/Kirkwood or Maplewood/Richmond Heights or Lemay/Loughborough. So actually it makes a lot of sense for Menards to pick 63123... just where?
Larry Darragh October 02, 2013 at 09:52 AM
What if it is Menard's strategy to put a store in Affton because of its proximity to STL City and the rest of South Co.? Land is cheaper here, so if they can find a site that's large enough to handle the commercial footprint, it seems to me that this is good business strategy on their part.
Johann Aff October 02, 2013 at 01:31 PM
"It makes no sense for them to build on Hanley". Tell that to Menards lulz. "What if it is Menard's strategy to put a store in Affton because of its proximity to STL City and the rest of South Co.? " I don't think any corporation worth its salt has an Affton strategy. Quick, name a big box store that isnt visible from a highway or doesn't have three minute drivetime access to one? No one is going to drive down Laclede Station Road, Mackenzie, River des Peres or Wabash Ave. to go on a shopping spree in Affton. The neighborhoods around Gravois west of Kingshighway? Not much density there, or good demographics. Cemeteries. Whoever lives there is already finding their needs at the much closer Loughborough Commons or Chippewa/Kingshighway (both heavily TIF'd projects, btw). Just think, Schnucks, Walgreens and CVS all bet heavily on the idea that city people would not drive past Hampton into Affton. I'm not against trying to get Menard's. Who really knows? But I don't want us to constantly play this "big box lure" game and be here in 10 years with nothing to show for it. I think our efforts are better spent trying to get some sort of charrette going for reusing all that property on Gravois.
Paul Revere October 03, 2013 at 03:51 PM
Hey!Menards!!!!! Can you dial 63123????? Can someone really tell me what Menards sells that Lowes or Home Depot does not sell?
Paul Revere October 05, 2013 at 04:18 PM
Johann makes excellent points. Demographics of Affton along with it's aging population will not be a big draw for big business unless a concerted effort is made to get our real estate and automobile personal property taxes decreased. That goal must come first before trying to lure any bigger business into Affton. Look at Gravois from Hampton WEST. It is indeed a mishmash of uncoordinated shame. Every structure should be given a freebie tax abatement (credit) to improve our properties without having to PAY ONE MORE CENT in property taxes. Over 90% of this district residents do not know that a commercial building pays Double the Tax on their commercial property than the homeowner. That's right ---A $150,000 commercial property pays on 32% of it's value while a homeowner pays on 19% of their home So, a $2,000 home tax is a $4,000 commercial tax. (please don't write my figures are wrong, they are just for emphasis of the absurdity in our whole tax structure.) Call it improvement tax exemptions for everybody. Than watch this area start to improve without being taxed for their money invested in their properties. Our schools have had enough of our hard earned dollars. They should not benefit from our improvements having nothing to do with education. Residents without children should not support teachers pensions. Their money should be in home improvements. Propose Affton vote a Property Improvement Tax Abatement FOR ALL. I am tired of spending $25,000 on my Home improvements only to have to fork out more Dollars to pay an already overpaid Educator's pension.
Sabrina October 06, 2013 at 09:04 AM
So what are the first steps to getting businesses/residents tax relief? I always assumed places like Kirkwood had much higher taxes versus Affton due to how progressive the town is and younger working professionals living there, I was wrong. Amazed that Affton has higher taxes and other than our school system, nothing to show for it.
Paul Revere October 06, 2013 at 12:55 PM
Sabrina: The state's avg Total tax rate is $7.50+- Comparing ourselves to any other area is wrong. Why? Because "union"styled pensions are in every rate tested. Clayton has a low rate because they can tax on $500,000 homes. They can tax many businesses able to pass the tax on to consumers. Affton does not have that luxury. Clayton public schools cost about $20,000 per Public School student. Kirkwood also has the ability to a lower tax because of their home values. Where to start? Simple, if our homeowners with no children in School (that is over 50% of Affton) would vote NO on any more tax increases, a head to head request that our school boards immediately put a demand on all educators that AFFTON can no longer afford to support union styled pensions. That's how you start. The local people need to break away from a Public school system that employs 19th century pensions. We need to demand that no teacher be paid more than 7.65% into their personal pensions. Voting NO might eventually lead to a strike, and that is exactly how you win. If over 50% of this Affton area sticks to their guns of NO, than the school board will be forced to negotiate FOR THE PEOPLE, Not for their Buddies. Affton's schools are good, but it is bankrupting the community. If St Dominic, Our Lady of Providence, St Justin can charge $5,000 for excellent Mo approved education, than we should demand our Public schools do the same. Residents are ignorant of exactly how highly paid our educators are, compared to the community they work for. The fact that one reader here (You) understands the points made says more about Affton's future than imaginable. We have to admit to a problem before we can fix it. Wishful thinking leaders are not ever going to handle nor suggest a NO vote. Our leaders are tied into the votes of our public school employees. Only the people can free Affton from the highest tax rates in Missouri. (Our cars, Homes/Improvements, Casino entertainment, Lotto revenues, Tobacco taxes are all supporting a monopoly of Union wages that will keep eating your home away from you. Why do our communities not see this???????? Media does not want you to know.
Sabrina October 06, 2013 at 04:42 PM
Thanks Paul. I am hoping that a group of leaders will come forward to educate the rest of us before there is another vote on the ballot. I had no idea this was how it worked. I am part of the 50% who do not have children in the Affton School system. I will continue to learn more about the tax system. It just seemed odd that most everything, with the exception of the schools, was diminishing. I think every child deserves/needs to be greatly educated, but we have to make sure the rest of us survive while doing it.
Paul Revere October 06, 2013 at 07:45 PM
Hopefully, our Education Board reads this and asks themselves serious questions. Every child does need to be educated. All I ask is "AT WHAT COST"? Tell your neighbors and friends about how the tax rates work. I am sure they would all agree with you. The ballot box first. Thousands of residents who use Catholic or Baptists or Lutheran or Home schooled choices should be on your side. Those homeowners "empty nesters" should be on the side of a lowered tax rate for any homeowner no longer needing a "teacher". I am 100% certain they would all be for a halt to Affton's high tax rates that are stealing our homes. If the community votes no more tax increases, rest assured I will be a voice to correct this mess. Menard's is a pipe dream! Our leaders have no idea how limited the tax revenues are in Affton.
Larry Darragh October 07, 2013 at 12:17 PM
Sabrina - The actual cost per student in the Clayton School District in 2012 was $18,372.00.(http://mcds.dese.mo.gov/guidedinquiry/District%20and%20School%20Information/School%20Finance%20Report.aspx?rp:DistrictCode=096102). Paul - you do realize that, without providing any convincing evidence to back your arguments, and waving off any requests to do just that -- "(I cannot confirm that as unable to get the details-no time)" -- it makes what you post on the Patch very difficult for me to believe.
Paul Revere October 08, 2013 at 12:27 AM
Well Larry, I am convinced you do not understand the difference in "about" and "actual". Or, your goal is to try and diminish my comments. Who cares if it's 18k or 20k. You sir, are what I call a "diverter". Why don't you you comment on why Affton residents should pay all their life for "someone else's childs education????? An education that costs 70% for Teachers Lifestyles. You ask how schools can do it for $5,000. Someone , I detect you are not a serious writer here. So, why has it taken you so long to correct that number? Maybe it's because you don't want Affton residents to see the truth. Maybe it's because your income is attached to the Public schools keeping their numbers very secret. Why don't you go get your research staff to "prove" that administrators are costing us all over $100k per year. Time is on my side. When new tax increases come, the residents will be well informed as to the highly paid educators secrets exposed. Menard's dream is a perfect example to make my points about the future of Affton. School boards all across Missouri must be defeated and start representing the people. (The taxpaying public). If every local Business had a vote on tax rates, our schools would be more in line what a teacher should be paid. So, go ahead and pretend you are a concerned Affton citizen, because that is exactly how your comments depict you. (The big Pretender).
Larry Darragh October 08, 2013 at 03:12 PM
Paul- {{Why don't you you comment on why Affton residents should pay all their life for "someone else's childs education?????}} I did, but you obviously missed that, or you're just ignoring it. {{You ask how schools can do it for $5,000. Someone , I detect you are not a serious writer here.}} What? What is this gibberish? {{ Why don't you go get your research staff to "prove" that administrators are costing us all over $100k per year. }} Why are you saying this? I never disagreed with you on the topic of overpaid school administrators. And why are you trying to place the burden of proof on me to substantiate your malarkey? I provide documented evidence to back up what I say. You've never provided __any__ proof to back your arguments so they're little more than popcorn farts in the wind to me. If you see yourself as this modern-day Publius, fighting for the rights of the people to be "well informed," you better get your figures straight and presentable (to gain support), or else you're going to be made to look like a major fool by your opposition. It's becoming clear to me why you're so biased against the educational system. In reading your posts you make my brain hurt with wanton grammatical errors, the haphazard use of punctuation, Ad Hominem attacks and name calling (oh, such the sophisticated debate tactic), and the wretched use of ALL CAPS to prove how REALLY, REALLY MAD YOU MUST BE!!! You obviously had a lousy education, and now you wish the same on others. Oh, and the proper spelling of the old Roman Emperor you used in a previous post is "Julius Caesar," just in case you wish to use that analogy again. I know this because I went to one of those public schools where they taught us history and spelling.
Affton Resident October 08, 2013 at 03:23 PM
Paul - Pension will need to be reformed by the state of missouri. Affton Board of Education will not stir that pot unless every other school district and board were screaming for reform. It needs to be fixed but like every other problem - we dont like to bring up the difficult discussions/decisions until we are ready to default.
Affton Resident October 08, 2013 at 03:33 PM
Regarding luring business to Affton- if we were incorporated we would have more flexibility. We are under st louis county - they dont care about any of that unless we are looking to build out another senior living/assisted living center. Growth will have to come from entrepreneurs/ self developed in the community, and our demographics will limit that growth because of poorer credit/ not enough cash on hand to sustain.
Paul Revere October 11, 2013 at 06:40 PM
Well Larry, once again the truth comes out of you. A former Public school student who is set on putting down someone who you NOT KNOW. So, form your opinions of how well educated I might or might not be. Fact is, it is starting to show that you are unwilling to discuss the Pensions of the teachers. Let me add one more thing. Forcing any citizen in the USA to use a service that is already available to the American public is wrong. If you want to argue my point that communities have many alternative elementary education available at much less cost than public schools, please do so. I pay $4,000 for my child's school, so that is my proof. A school that has 99.9% high school onward , with 98% graduating High school. But, I do not argue against Public schools costs from that point. You would rather see residents losing homes because they are forced to pay for not only the Public schools, but also for the obnoxious $80k to $125k pensions that have zilch to do with education. We all need and use Firemen, Policemen and city hall services. Those are truly Government services. Public schools "ARE NOT GOVERNMENT SERVICES". They are Mandated services. there is a big difference. Just like Obamacare, it is a Mandated service--It is not a Public service. Soon , we will all have "Public medical" & private medical". Need I explain that? Do I need to put a number behind every comment?. The school of hard knock always cautioned me to appear less intelligent than the other person, until that other person reveals their own intelligence value. Something you should remember before you pounce on the unknown. Surely, you should know from my past comments, I have the ability to eat anything thrown at me, and spit it out. MY goal is simple, educate the uninformed ----ONE AT A TIME. When Affton residents see how the Teacher unions are transforming society into "MODERN DAY SLAVERY", maybe your number charts , (which are correct!) will be buried in the vaults of revolt. BTW: Almost every Teacher having at least 25 years service actually ranks in the upper 5% of all MO retirees. Did you miss the recent Household income report? Average US household income is DOWN over $5,000 these past 5 years. Would you like to tell us all how many Affton teachers still working at Affton actually got $5,000 cuts in pays and benefits?. Would you like to tell us how many residents are earning much less today and still paying the same Real estate tax amounts as 5 years ago? Do you know that even a 2% pay raise costs us all more in Pension costs based on that 2% w-2 raise. Do you know that a $50k worker in America pays 7.65% (soc sec)to support America's DEBT?. A $50k Teacher pays ZERO of US Debt BUT PUTS 14% (that's $7,000) every year directly into their own personal Pension fund. They report only $43k taxable income , but the American Worker reports all $50k as taxable. Over 25 years that amounts to approx$200k. WOW! want me to go on LARRY? I can literally knock the logic of how our Public School unions are "stealing" the American way of life, right under our own stupidity. They will one day rank as the elite top .5% of all Missourians. There are only 11 states that treat Educators like "elitists". 1 of those states is about to get rid of the R.E Tax. So, instead of pretending you agree with me, why don't you call for a complete change in how public schools are funded?. Am I too weak for you.
Larry Darragh October 17, 2013 at 06:01 PM
Paul, Ok, let's start with your child's tuition. What school do they attend, if I may be so bold as to ask?


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